On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:18:06 -0400, Jayne Kulikauskas
Post by Jayne KulikauskasPost by VikingWell now *here's* an interesting thread. Jayne: have you considered
that the "evidential truth" that is to be discovered is that one need
not have a meaning framework at all--that in the absence of such a
framework, there is no need for it? That is to say, seeking ultimate
"evidential truth" might mean simply removing the layers of
psychological construction we've imposed on the world? And that in the
absence of any such imposed layers of meaning, there need not be any
need for them at all? That without those layers one is so much a part
of the world that there is no need to relate oneself to it through an
imposed framework of meaning?
Anyway, an interesting thread. Let me know if you understood anything
I've said....
I think I've understood what you said, although I find it hard to imagine
how a person could relate to the world without a framework of meaning.
You, for example, seem to believe that feminism is bad and it is something
that men ought to oppose. How is it possible to believe this without a
framework of meaning?
In my world view (basically Christian Humanist, along the lines of Erasmus)
I can say that people ought to oppose feminism because it leads to men
being treated unjustly and to people being unhappy. I have "imposed layers
of meaning" such that I have values like "justice is good"; "causing
long-term widespread unhappiness is bad"; and "people ought to support the
good and oppose the bad". I weigh my observations against my values, come
to conclusions about things, make decisions and choose courses of action.
How would a person with no framework of meaning making any decisions or
judgements? Is his life just a series of random interactions?
A fine question, Jayne. When one has thrown off the layers of meaning
that one usually imposes on the world, one is no longer compelled by
hidden mental forces, as most people are. There's no unconscious mind
operating, compelling one to live a life pushed in various directions
for reasons that you have no clue about. That's the way most people
operate--mentally imposing layers of meaning and then struggling with
their mental creation all their life, believing it real.
When one throws off those imposed layers of meaning, you see that you
are as much a part of the world as anything is--that when you act, the
world is acting. In other words, you are free, and as much a part of
the world as anything is.
This gives you the ability to consciously decide your life, without
hidden compulsions. You take control, you are the world. You can
decide for yourself, much as an artist makes a creation. That's how I
look at life--making my own conscious decisions, creating, acting as
an artist.
Life is not "just a series of random interactions"--not when you're as
much a part of the world as anything is. That puts you on the level of
everything else, not beneath it--you are the decider of your life, not
just the sufferer of external circumstances (as most people live their
lives). That's the point I want to make--rather than being subject to
your life, wondering what it's all about, you take the reins and you
create, artfully.
For example, my sweetie and I made the conscious decision to love each
other fully. That conscious choice has let us put our relationship
above all else, and in consequence nothing else threatens it--we've
never had a fight in 13 years. There are no clouds between us, and we
want only what's best for the other--a good part of my life revolves
around the conscious decision to build a good life for us both. That
was a conscious choice.
As for my actions in sm, I also made the conscious choice of working
for justice. As to getting angry, sm has always been my test
ground--for I consciously decide to get angry as well as loving.
Well, *laugh*, things got somewhat out of hand in that department, so
I shut them down and now use a killfile for the time being. That
doesn't rule out getting angry in the future, but I have to be more
careful about slipping into the unconscious trap about believing that
what people say about you has a hold on you when, of course, it
doesn't. Don't rule out anger in the future there. It's an ongoing
experiment for me (and a somewhat too seductive one!).
So that's the idea--when you see that you're as much a part of
everything as anything is, that gives you the freedom to consciously
create your life, without needing to react to hidden compulsions. You
live your life as a work of art, as a free conscious creation. That's
what getting rid of the layers of meaning you (unconsciously) impose
on the world does for you. It's not that you find an external object
of truth--rather, you find that by removing the layers of obfuscation,
you don't need an external truth.